I forgot to mention Dasi's death.

Oh yeah I forgot to mention those.

And when Ris raped little Kia I still can't get over that.

The times that had me literally bawling was Matilda's Death the First and the Second. Especially when she tells Alred what she gave each of her children to him for (Dunstan for worrying, Margaret for kicking and so forth). And her poem-psalter!

Hers hit me the hardest because the first time... well, the first time was just amazingly written. The second time was preceded by Matilda's long, downward spiral that almost exploded into her death post. Every death in Lothere is a big thing, but when they die it's generally off-screen, sudden and/or without huge build up. I guess that's what made Matilda's death stand out to me.

It's a small moment, but when Sebastien punched Cian in the face (or was it before...?) and said something about black and batty babies, and Cian looks over his shoulder in horror-- that was REALLY sad for me too. The rest of the story he's just so amusing to me, but Cian at that point was just heartbreaking.

(first post! *dances*)

That's not Cian it's someone else.

It's just so hard to believe that this Dantalion who murdered Dasi; is the same Dantalion who loves and cares about Eithne. It's hard seeing them as the same person sometimes.

I had to change to Belsar's lovable mug when I saw it! Sorry, Paul!

Lothere: That's true, I guess the impact might be lessened if I re-read it, now that I know she'll survive. But it's still such a beautiful scene and I'm so glad you wrote it. Like Alred, that moment will always show me Matilda's great love for him, whatever she did later on.

It's also rather meaningful in another way-- it's like that First Death was meant to "correct" the wrong event sequence that resulted from Leofric living. If Matilda died then, she wouldn't have cheated with Leofric, and maybe Alred would've stayed behind and died and Vash would be with Iylaine. But she didn't die, and cheated with Leofric; and instead of dying a beautiful, soooo romantic death she instead slowly wastes away into a stroke (reduced to making "animal sounds", IIRC). But it's already too late by then, and the event sequence was already off-track.

Devin: That small scene was what convinced me that Dantalion was serious about Eithne. Previously I still believed that he was knowingly and cruelly using her, but seeing Dante's reaction through Araphel's eyes was the clincher. If Araphel, who would probably be the last to believe Dante in love, could see the pure horror in his eyes... *shrugs*

Though I agree that Cian is so different from Dre. I wonder if they have their little personalities that affect Dante, just like Seb and Brude did Araphel. Even so, I think it's very illustrative of how different a person (or demon, or black-batty-fallen-angels) can be in different circumstances. Just like Osh with Flann and Aia. Or Vash with kisors and Iylaine. Often times, it's not a monster that is capable of inhuman cruelty, but ordinary men who have loves of their own.

Okay so I am officially distracted from writing a post with this question . At the moment I can think of two really big ones... they are actually the recent chapter with Sigi and Eirik where Sigi lost her baby, "Sigrid hears a call". I think that is one of the saddest chapters you have ever written Lothere. I was weeping by the end. What's happening with them anyway! I want to know! The other one is "Flann enters the valley" where Flann found out that Brude died (I know I know... you all think I was just upset about Brude). But it wasn't just that.... it was Flann's reaction that was so utterly heartbreaking and in particular the last picture of that chapter just kills me. That kind of helpless grief. And this line "He had died months before, and all through these months of contented waiting, of pure faith, of absolute certitude that he would return…". And he did and she didn't even know him! Oh sob sob!

But another chapter that really touched me and I guess the event surrounding it effected me so much was "Leofric issues his command". One of the most tragic issues for me in Lothere right now is Hetty's grief and this whole dreadful matter. Her facial expressions in that chapter are so dreadfully sad. Oh poor lovely Hetty... this line “I was so happy!” she sobbed.  “I thought—one man!  One man loves me better than Lili.  I only wanted one!”. And now Leofric and oh what a big mess.

There is one more which I find destructively sad but I can't find it now and that is the chapter where Ilyaine finds out she is actually bound to Vash. I don't know if it is more sad in hindsight now that we now that Ilyaine can't be happy with Malcom though.

Hmmm... but there are so very many sad moments in Lothere it is hard not to want to say them all. So those are the ones I can think of at the moment... there are more little sadnesses but I think these are the saddest. I think to date the two chapters that have illicted the strongest response from me have been "Sigrid hears a call" and the chapter where you think Alred will kill Leofric. Although the second wasn't really so sad (I mean it was but it wasn't if you know what I mean) I could barely read it my heart was pounding so hard. I even felt ill . And when I read "Sigrid hears a call" I couldn't see the page through the tears. So there you have it. I am sure I will think of more throughout the night and the next day of experiment waiting.

The 2 saddest chapters for me:

The chapter when Matilda dies (is dying?) is really sad, but I always start tear dropping on the one when her father comes to take her away It's such a sweet chapter, but... ;_;

And the other one I get tear drops on is when Edris gets that letter of Cenwulf's death. Ohhhh man.

Verity, I think the chapter you meant was "Iylaine meets her father's fear":

“You only felt weak and ill because you were far from me.  It was because you missed me in ways you can’t imagine.”

“You?”

“Yes.”

They were silent for a moment, and then Iylaine asked, “Because you are my cousin?”

“No, Iylaine.”  He too sounded proud and proprietary, but to Egelric’s ears it was the malevolent pride of one who had stolen something unfairly and who held it forever out of reach of its rightful owner.  “It is because you are my wife.”

That one is sad but I think "Lady Gwynn drinks up romance to the dregs" is sadder. Maybe because we get Gwynn's perspective and not Egelric's. Maybe because Vash has had the time to grow a little humility. Maybe because we know it's already too late at that point. In "Iylaine meets her father's fear" she asks, "Why didn't you tell me?" In "Lady Gwynn drinks up romance" she only says, "You never told me once."

I thought of a couple others: There is "Alwy tells Gunnilda", when we hear Alwy telling Gunnilda that Elfleda has killed herself. We get a really lovely look at Alwy's love for her, and at Alwy's loving heart in general. She also tells Bertie in that chapter, and just like Alwy did, little Bertie tells her she better not do that herself, which is kind of poignant too.

There is also "Egelric has a late visitor", when Gunnilda comes in the rain to say a proper goodbye to him. I believe it's the closest they ever came. He also sends her home with his old cloak that night:

He took his rough old woolen cloak from the hook and wrapped it over her shoulders, thinking as he did of the contrast between dark little Gunnilda, who snuggled gratefully into the humble plaid, and his red-haired wife, who would stand tall and wait for him to drape her embroidered shawl over her proud shoulders as if she were granting a favor.

And six years later, when he is an absolute wreck and comes wandering back to her in "Gunnilda has an unexpected visitor", he finds she has kept it all this time:

He stepped in after her and busied himself with removing his cloak.  He went to hang it on the peg, and she saw him hesitate a moment before the old plaid.  And then he hung his cloak atop it.

I'm probably the only person who noticed but still.

The latter is a rather sad chapter itself:

It seemed tragic, the way his brows drooped heavily over his eyes, the way his eyes lay deep in a smudge of shadow, the way his skin stretched thin and tight over the arch of his nose and lay slack over his cheeks, and the way his mouth fell into a sort of frown out of sheer lassitude.  All that had been fine and flashing in him had fallen into decay.

Most tragic of all seemed to be the hands that lay on the table—not palms-downward to steady him, not palms-upward in a deliberate gesture of surrender or appeal, but heavily on their sides with the fingers hanging limp, like a pair of dead animals whose limbs lay where last they fell.

His hands had always fascinated her, the way the hands of a strong and capable man will fascinate such a woman.  It was something to slip one’s hand trustingly into another hand strong enough to snap one’s bones.  And those hands knew how to do—and had done—so many things!  They had built and broken and sown and braided and written and bathed and steadied and—so many things!  And now they were dead, and the thumbs and the fingers of the hands curled lifelessly around the palm, the way a dead animal will lie slightly curved around its belly.

Without thinking, she laid one of her own hands over his and was almost surprised to find it warm and alive.

Her small hand slipped easily into the space between his thumb and his curving fingers, and her fingertips found his palm.  Her thumb reassured itself of the solid knuckles, of the tendons across the back of his hand, of the dark hair on the backs of his fingers.  Her fingertips explored the creases of his palm and found the calluses of reins, of sword hilts, of other things she could not guess.

His hands were not dead.  They still worked, still knew how to work, and in the faint play and spring of the muscles she could tell that they were still strong.  They were merely waiting to die.

He still stared at the lamp, and for a while he gave no sign of noticing her hand, or even her presence.  But gradually she realized that his fingers had been curling closer around hers until finally he had pressed her fingertips into his palm and she could move them no more.

They sat a while thus, and neither spoke, and the fire and the sun burned low.

He stared at the lamp, and she looked at his profile.  It, at least, had changed little, and it shone out against the shadow of the hall, as ruddy and as noble in the twilight as the face on a gold coin.

And then bam! little Wynna shows up and spoils everything. After that instant I do not think they were ever so close again. If that doesn't make you sad...

So you want Ethelwyn to die Verity?

I would be totally okay with getting rid of Ethelmund to get Gunnilda and Egelric together!! I mean, I like him and all, but Gunnilda deserves some happiness. Maybe Egelric won't make her happy (he doesn't have a great track record) in the long term, but she'll be happy for at least a short time and she's earned it through two marriages to men she doesn't love.

I have to agree with Verity that the saddest moment I can recall in Lothere is in "Sigrid Hears a Call". The way she bravely hides the miscarriage from Eirik while knowing that she may not live through it was one of the saddest things I've read. Even now I'm counting on her making it!! I'll be SO sad if she doesn't. It's upsetting me now to think that she could be dead as we...comment....?

I didn't say I necessarily wanted Ethelmund dead... I guess I wouldn't be devastated if he did die but it might be more interesting if he didn't.

I don't think Gunnie has denied them the basic affection they needed... she has done everything to be a good wife to two men that she doesn't love and while she hasn't been overly affectionate with either of them, she has been friendly and kind in general. When we see her not being affectionate it always seems to be in relation to the bedroom and she does seem to be a bit uptight about that in general anyway. I think she has cared for them both in her brusque sort of way. She was always affectionate in a "pish have some porridge" sort of way. And they honestly have gained as much, probably more from marrying her than she ever gained from them. Yes, she married them because they could provide for her but that was what people did back in those days. And in Ethelmund's case his reason for marrying her was almost the same, he needed a good wife to run his house and take care of his children.

So anyway... i will just step of my "support of Gunnie" ranting soap box now...

You may not want to inflict Egelric on Gunnilda at the moment, Karen, in the state he's in. He's a bit wolfish lately.

We might want to wait till he exhausts himself and comes limping back to her, like a "Gunnilda has an unexpected visitor" version 2, without Wynna this time.

Though it would be interesting to see whether Egelric the Wolf could stand up against Gunnilda's "Pish! None of your nonsense!"