"Son of a serpent!"
Lotherian Demographics "Beta test"
Submitted by Lothere on Tue, 04/08/2008 - 10:39.
I finally got authentication and access control built into my little demographics experiment, so you may have a look if you're interested. Guests should be able to view everything, though not edit.
Its non-permanent location is http://dev.syntacticpepper.com/demographics/.
UPDATE: Its permanent location is now http://www.lothere.com/demographics/
All of the edit/delete/randomize links and buttons should be hidden from anonymous users (and don't bother trying to log in ;-)), but if you see any I forgot let me know.
Eventually I am going to merge the Bio section into it, so when you drill down to the person-level you will see the family information and all the stuff you are used to seeing, rather than that sparse page with name and birthdate.
UPDATE: Bio pages are mostly back in action. The old links of the form http://www.lothere.com/bio/index.php?id=10 will still work, but they will redirect you to the new form: http://www.lothere.com/demographics/person/view/id/10
The "population" is being calculated based on the households, and since I haven't added the people we currently know to households yet, the actual population is a little higher. Currently all of the villages etc. are occupied only by the randomly-generated populace. It also means that characters like Alred aren't actually a "resident' of their own shire/hundred/village yet. That will be coming soon.
I also plan to add stuff to bio pages like the person's occupation and his descendants -- not just his children. And information about the Sim, where applicable, such as the skin and eyes they are using, since I keep track of that in a spreadsheet already.
Anyway, have fun clicking around. Devin, Egelric's village is Hæðhylle, to save you some clicks. ;-)
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And it's not even Christmas
Submitted by François on Tue, 04/08/2008 - 10:58.And it's not even Christmas ! Thank you so much ! You are brilliant and this page will be my friends for the next days (I have no time to read by now, I will play Wagner at the Opéra Bastille of Paris next monday... but I'll be back soon)
Wow you really are a
Submitted by Lothere on Tue, 04/08/2008 - 11:01.Wow you really are a musician! And I guess I have just proven myself a programmer, so we're both good.
So basically Egelric is the
Submitted by Devin on Tue, 04/08/2008 - 12:27.So basically Egelric is the person in charge of the town. Did this happen when he moved into the cottage?
There wasn't a town then. I
Submitted by Lothere on Tue, 04/08/2008 - 12:34.There wasn't a town then. I suppose that the town may have grown up where the workmen had lived, so technically I suppose he was the head of the town, since he was the foreman.
The names of people and
Submitted by François on Tue, 04/08/2008 - 20:33.The names of people and villages are so beautiful ! Is that old English or Gaelic ? It's like a fairy thing but I like it !
The names of the people are
Submitted by Lothere on Wed, 04/09/2008 - 06:56.The names of the people are a mix of (mostly) Anglo-Saxon with a few Welsh names thrown in, since there were plenty of Welshmen going up into that area at different times.
The names of the villages and tithings are all Anglo-Saxon, and I put them together myself, not randomly. I will put up a glossary of what the words mean later on. The names mostly mean things like "mill pond" or "market place" or "Queen's road", etc. Just naming them all has really made the country seem more alive to me.. I can almost picture the towns.
Update: Bio pages are back,
Submitted by Lothere on Thu, 04/10/2008 - 19:20.Update: Bio pages are back, sort of, on the temporary site. (Just in case you were dying to boggle over the number of Leofric's runts again.) There are a few rough edges but the usual info is back up.
Temporary Bio URL
You can search by names now, finally. And include only currently-living people if you like. I will add more search criteria later.
There aren't any more "PRIVATE" people. I got tired of maintaining that list. So the elven family tree is now wide-open. I hope I didn't have any deep dark mysteries left.
I hadn't realized how often I consulted that site until it wasn't available. It's a hell of a lot quicker than firing up my family tree software. Especially if I first have to walk 2 miles to get home to do it.
Wow I am surprised about
Submitted by Devin on Thu, 04/10/2008 - 20:43.Wow I am surprised about what I learned.
Lady Sela is distantly related to Midra and Osh and that one of her ancestors was named Sela and a Khora.
Lena's paternal family shocked me, she is the grand daughter of Dru making Lar her uncle and Gils her first cousin.
Well, you've learned that if
Submitted by Lothere on Fri, 04/11/2008 - 03:47.Well, you've learned that if you have any khírrón blood at all you're related to all of them... and you're likely descended from a king or two.
This is so interesting i
Submitted by Devin on Fri, 04/11/2008 - 07:18.This is so interesting i can't wait to see Tashnu and Nina.
I might be the only one, but
Submitted by Lady F on Sat, 04/12/2008 - 09:43.I might be the only one, but I'm not sure what all the different terms mean - what's a shire, and what does the 'manor' mean?
Could you just explain all of the different terms? >.<
I doubt you are the only
Submitted by Lothere on Sat, 04/12/2008 - 14:42.I doubt you are the only one. I am planning to put a glossary but for now, here's a super quick lesson in Anglo-Saxon administration:
I will also add a glossary of Anglo-Saxon words so you can figure out what the names of the tithings and everything mean. Cwéne-weg is "Queen's way", Cynges-stræt is "King's street", Apulder-tún is "apple town", Cýping-geat is "market gate" and so on. Yes, I had fun with this.
Wow...this is amazing
Submitted by Verity on Mon, 04/21/2008 - 10:22.Wow...this is amazing Lothere... you are such a computer scientist!!! But seriously... you have put such a lot of thought into all of this. It was quite helpful for me actually because I have been trying to think about what sort of different skilled people I have on the island and your list of job types was really great. Also thanks for the glossary. I really didn't know what a lot of those terms actually meant. Tithing sounds a bit like a hippy commune I have been trying to work out how many people are actually on Mhalwae. Actually does anybody have any idea how many people a typical medieval long journey ship would carry?
For more info about
Submitted by Lothere on Mon, 04/21/2008 - 10:35.For more info about occupations and somewhat about demographics, you can check out "Medieval demographics made easy", which page kind of got me started, though I have gone way more detailed than that since.
You have the same problem as I, though, with such a young civilization. # of people per ship is a great question. I mostly know about Viking ships since that is my time period, but for long hauls they were working in the range of up to 60 people per ship maximum. However, this doesn't take into account animals and stuff -- that would be like loading up a cargo ship with all men and no freight. I think the Vinland settlers were supposed to have around 30 people per ship. A good Viking warship had a crew of around 30 but no room for cargo. I had Eirik and Skorri escape with 2 ships and 38 men (plus 1 woman ), which was perhaps pushing their luck on winter seas. Your ship is definitely no Viking ship, though, so I can't help much more than that.
Yeah... just from the look
Submitted by Verity on Thu, 05/01/2008 - 02:24.Yeah... just from the look of it I think the closest type of ship I can find that was running in medievalish times was a carrack (although it was like 15th century so a bit out of the time period I was aiming for but it doesn't matter so much since the world I have set my story in is a bit more developed in the shipping stakes to account for the problem . It is so hard to find a site that tells you how much it would actually carry though. Well I can get a tonnage but that isn't really helpful because I can't even begin to equate how many people and provisions that would make. I found somewhere that it could carry 40 people but then somewhere else it says it carried one crew per 5-8 tons of cargo capacity. Meh. I think I am going to go for a number somewhere around 40-60. Seems reasonable with the amount of cargo they would need and the probable size of the ship. But meh... it is so difficult to imagine and of course I don't really have any concept of how big the ship really is. Oh well.
OMG Aia is the only female
Submitted by Devin on Tue, 05/06/2008 - 15:13.OMG Aia is the only female in Lothere who has her own household! She's the first, excellent.
And Oswald lives right next door. OOh I'm so torn I want him for Matilda but he has a house and money which puts him on my list for possible suitors for Aia.
Actually forget what I just
Submitted by Devin on Tue, 05/06/2008 - 15:31.Actually forget what I just said that guy who got hung his daughter is the head of her household she was the first. But still that's great women the head of their own households during this time is cool.
There are a few other
Submitted by Lothere on Tue, 05/06/2008 - 17:23.There are a few other households run by women, Devin, and there will be a few more. One of them is owned by a couple of young healers, Ffraid and Aelfgith, out in Maedeshamstede. Both young widows, setting up house together. Sounds like an interesting duo actually.
When I randomly generated all the households I made sure that every one had at least one adult male, even if there were also some orphans and widows in it. But as I am assigning occupations to people, marrying off some of the youngsters, and otherwise moving them around, I am creating the occasional house run by a woman. It's not unheard of in Anglo-Saxon times, but it's pretty rare and maybe even rather shocking, which is why I wonder about Ffraid and Aelfgith. They must be some tough young ladies.
I'm not done with the employing and the marrying and the moving yet, and since I am doing some of the work manually now, you see how these randomly-generated people are beginning to grow personalities and stories in my mind. I am hopeless. I just know that once I get everyone settled in Lothere I am going to start over with the elves. Combining databases and storytelling into one package is like a drug custom-made for my brain.
I was just looking at the
Submitted by Devin on Sat, 05/10/2008 - 06:15.I was just looking at the profile of Old Aed's second wife Órlaith and saw that she's 7 months pregnant again.
And dear Cecily is 5 days pregnant, I can't wait to see her and Caedwulf again. Oh Maud's going to be a grandma, I hope Sigefrith will love his grandchild regarless of it's legetimacy.
Haha, I just went through
Submitted by Lothere on Sat, 05/10/2008 - 07:05.Haha, I just went through and put in the pregnancy details for all the women I usually keep track of. I guess there won't be any surprises there, though, but thanks to the magic of databases you will now be able to find out a woman's pregnant on the very day of conception...
Keep your eye on Maire. Luckily for her, neither she nor Egelric are among the most fertile inhabitants of the kingdom.
Wow, Caedwulf. Seems he
Submitted by Tiffany on Sat, 05/10/2008 - 08:46.Wow, Caedwulf. Seems he forgot Ogive's nose, eh?
I thought Sessot wasn't that type of girl!!??!
Maire, hmm, she'll have fun explaining an untimely pregnancy to Aengus or a strange reintroduction into her bed...
Cecily does seem a bit nicer
Submitted by Devin on Sat, 05/10/2008 - 09:27.Cecily does seem a bit nicer and more gentle then Ogive. I'm still turned off by Ogive her making fun of Anna because of her birth annoyed the hell out of me. But her sticking up with Eadie was very noble of her.
I totally understand your
Submitted by Verity on Sat, 05/10/2008 - 11:33.I totally understand your problem Lothere. I have been trying to think about who I need on the island but I can't just make a list of people without building some back story for the characters in my head. And then I want to add it to my story. I had the silly idea of making all the people on the island so they are always there if I need them and because I really like making sims. I made 4 so far and I liked them so much that I want to use them in my story (we will meet 3 of them in the next post). So I am just going to have to stop doing that because I really can't help myself. I am just going to have a nameless set of people who are only assigned jobs. But it is so much fun making new sims! Ach! I guess luckily I have a limited amount of people... it makes it harder when people can migrate to your kingdom
I am so impressed that you pretty much know everyone living in Lothere now. Wow! And I must say I am really interested in catching a glimpse of these two widows sometime but I understand you have a lot of things going on already. They do sound like an interesting pair of people though
I don't have quite everyone
Submitted by Lothere on Sat, 05/10/2008 - 11:44.I don't have quite everyone yet... I still need to add the staff of all the castles. Those are the most important in a way, since those are the ones people in the story will interact with the most.
But doing all the people in the towns -- and in some cases, especially putting them into "streets" and "neighborhoods" -- has really helped me visualize the map of Lothere a lot better. I need to draw another one now. The area around Nothelm seems quite interesting in particular... there is a street, Matildasweg, for example, where all the fancy shops are located... the illuminator, the jeweler, the bookseller, etc. How I would love to take a stroll down that street!
Did you ever draw a map of Mhalwae or is it all in your head? I know they haven't mapped much of the island, but still...
I haven't drawn a very
Submitted by Verity on Sun, 05/11/2008 - 01:10.I haven't drawn a very detailed map yet. I have drawn a few but I am not super happy with them. I need to sit down and make a really good one. I have drawn a rough map of the entire world as well, so I can picture where people come from (since there are some people from countries other than Branwhuld, such as Madlenka and Nyawe of course). We will also be meeting the first mate of the ship and his sister the Captain of the Fleets wife. They come from a Southern Continent which doesn't usually associate with the North (particularly now for a very good reason that will probably come into the story at some stage). The big problem I have with making maps is that I am really terrible at thinking up names for places. I sit there for ages like... uhmmm and then I just get frustrated. But I have a general idea in my head where things are in Mhalwae. At the moment it is quite unexplored, they have done a general scout but haven't gone to any of the difficult places. At the moment, the buildings that have been built are clustered around the safe cove where they landed. They will spread out later, but at the moment society is sticking pretty close since there is quite a bit of arable land where they landed and there are freaky things going on
Matildasweg does sound
Submitted by Verity on Sun, 05/11/2008 - 01:11.Matildasweg does sound really cool. Have you ever thought about building an actual largescale village setting?
There are always random name
Submitted by Lothere on Sun, 05/11/2008 - 06:33.There are always random name generators for map-making, but I think you have found a few of those already. I make up my (Anglo-Saxon and Gaelic) names based on knowledge of the languages though. If the elves had place names I could do that too, but first I had to make up their language.
It is cool that you mapped your world though! That is some good planning. I am curious to learn the "very good reason". I wonder if it has anything to do with Lekha's relationship with her husband.
What I would like is a good program for making maps. I am sure dungeon mastery types must have such things in this day and age, but aside from not wanting to spend money on software, I wouldn't know where to look. I will probably do something in Photoshop or Illustrator one of these days, but it never looks how I want it.
I have thought about doing villages (and there is actually a sort-of village around Anna's father's tiler's studio) but outdoor early medieval architecture in the Sims is arguably even less realistic than indoor. That has been what has stopped me so far. That, and the fact that a 20-year-old 11th century village probably doesn't look as village-like as we might think. I suspect that only Cynges-myrt and Heah-duna are developed and "modern" enough to really look like villages with streets and so on.
But I can imagine Matildasweg a bit... so sweet that it's named after her. Maybe I will do something there now that I know who lives there. The life of an illuminator living before the gates of Nothelm keep is probably a rather interesting one.
But I admit, one of the reasons why I did this whole project was just so I could get some lower-class girls around so I could send Conrad, Finn, and company off on Interesting Adventures and not make it seem so hand-wavy and unreal. If the girls start having names and fathers and houses and lives, there will start to be consequences (including of the diapered variety) and that will be more interesting and fun. I wish I had done that with Caedwulf.
"Interesing Adventures"
Submitted by Devin on Sun, 05/11/2008 - 07:15."Interesing Adventures" there better not be any bastard children running around with ugly noses. I can't believe how fast these kids are growing up. Just yesterday Finn and Iylaine were babies now they're growing up and Iylaine is a mommy.
It will come into the story
Submitted by Verity on Mon, 06/02/2008 - 13:55.It will come into the story in around nine months of story time I think. And it doesn't have anything to do with Lekha and her husband. That will also come into it at some stage but I haven't got a chapter planned with them yet. Too much other stuff about to happen and I still have to look in on Gay steward