This is one of the fears I have about Egelric, that he constantly needs a woman to help him get out of his depression. He has 6 children, why not put all his attention on them and having them save him from himself then another woman. I'm also a bit hesitant about if Aia ever comes to live with him and his kids. I don't want Egelric falling in love with his late second wife's younger sister.

When you officially announce the launch of the forum on Verso, I would like to create a topic asking everyone out of all the women who loved Egelric, who loved him the most?

I agree with you, on that Lili was the right woman for Egelric at that time.

What did you originally intend to do with Hetty?

I'll be Egelric's wife! Except...you know, he's a sim and all. And more than a smidgen too old for me. Though I'm sure he wouldn't mind, dirty old man that he is. *giggle*
Where do you think it all went wrong with Hetty? It all seemed to come apart so suddenly after Lili died - with Alred's grief, Hetty taking comfort from Leofric, him seeing Matilda, etc, etc. But as I recall things seemed to be going all right before that. I think maybe it was just that he could never get over Matilda, but Alred's just so complicated.

If that! She was about 20, I think. Obviously Elfleda and Gunnilda were in his time frame when he was with them - although I think Gunnilda is actually a fair bit younger than him. Not as big a gap as with Lili, obviously, but I think it's 6 years or so.
I don't think Alred will ever get over Matilda, either, but I don't know if that was everything. There was a lot going on there.
Oh, and Lothere, I can't believe you don't have Lili or Matilda avatars! (Or Cat.) Though Sigrid is most appropriate for me...she's probably the most like me, I think, though I have a dash of Hetty as well.

Lili was eighteen when she showed up on Egelric's doorstep. He was forty-one.

He's eight years older than Gunnilda, so back when he was in his mid-twenties that was a rather significant difference. And Sela was seventeen when he first met her and eighteen when he got together with her, though he was only about thirty-seven at the time.

So I guess he does like them younger. Hmm. You might be too young for him, Cassie, but he wouldn't think himself too old for you. I suppose Gwynn has already noticed the age thing, as well.

As for Alred and Hetty, it was going fairly all right before Lili's death. The real problem was that Alred never got over Matilda, and Hetty knew it. But she did think she was the woman he loved best after Matilda. She was OK with being a second wife. I suppose she did dream of being someone's best-beloved, but Hetty being what she is, she probably didn't think she was worthy of it.

However, if you look at "Leofric has a wicked thought" and "Leofric is frightened of his own desire" I think there is some chemistry there already.

But Alred really blew it when he told her about the poem. You can't blame him (much) for not loving Hetty as much as Matilda, since he did love Hetty and was a very good husband to her. But that was an idiotic thing to tell her, drunk or not. Afterwards Hetty thought she had never truly been loved at all.

Alred screwed up then, and several other times in the following days, whereas Leofric was delivering stroke after stroke of precisely what Hetty needed at precisely the moment she needed it. That's what happened. Now, unfortunately, even though things appear to be normal between her and Alred from the outside, they really aren't. We will have a glimpse of the two of them together in a week or so, and it's not getting any better.

As for the avatars, I will add more this weekend. I wanted to get a handful up in a hurry, but I realize there are some major characters missing. More importantly I need to put a new style on this site... all this whiteness is blinding me. This weekend! Tonight I have a chapter to write. (If I can stay awake long enough...)

Ha, when I saw the title of your comment I thought you were going to say you were only teasing about your offer of marriage to Egelric. Don't be surprised if he takes it seriously, as his cousin Malcolm did when Lasrua spoke a little carelessly.

Making avatars is fun, don't worry... it gives me a chance to go back through old pictures and reminisce. I had a devil of a time finding one for Alwy, though. It seemed like I never showed that guy in a reasonably frontal view. I was all the way back in the early day, blurry pictures before I found one. I may have the same problem with Maud and Elfleda.

As for Leofric and Hetty... *sigh* I know what the next installment of the Leofric & Hetty saga will be, but I have no idea what will come afterwards.

I have been very stingy lately with glimpses of some of the very people who must be going through the most turmoil -- Egelric, Hetty, Leofric, Alred, Lasrua, Malcolm... Except for Lasrua, I know when and how we will be seeing them again, but all of their futures are very much unknown to me at this point. 1086 should be an interesting year.

I think I would rather be married to dirty-old-devil Egelric than missing-Matilda Alred, though I wouldn't have thought so in 1084. I feel so awful for Hetty lately.

I chose Eadie for my avatar mainly because she seems like the one I most resemble. There aren't many brown-haired, blue-eyed ladies in Lothere to chose from. (Sigi being an exception, but I look less like Sigi than Eadie.) Also I liked the particular picture I found for her because she had her hair in a French braid, which I often wore when my hair was longer, and she has a bit of the Bayeux tapestry behind her head, which is one of the rare 11th century decorative elements I have, and which is all the more fitting since it depicts events at Hastings, which is how the story got started.

But knowing me and how easily bored I get, I will soon change. I have access to characters you don't even know about yet.

I can only guess that I have less distractions than you, or am fundamentally less distractable. I don't have kids or a TV at home, don't get around much, so there isn't much to distract me. Also, I have always been the type to get sucked into projects and spend every waking minute on them. So I couldn't say which.

I try to write for at least 2 hours a day, since I've found that whatever my project of the moment is, anything less doesn't make for much progress. Whether it's writing stories, writing poetry, writing code, or drawing, or learning languages, or whatever... In my experience you learn and/or achieve more if you spend two hours a day for one year than if you spend one hour a day for two or even three years. (And just how many three-year periods do you have left in your life?? I have so much I still want to do!)

At the moment I am trying to grow as a writer of prose, though I admit this story has taken on a life of its own, and my time spent on it is like its life support. I love it too much to let it die. Maybe when the first round of characters is gone -- the SIgefriths, the Alreds, the Egelrics -- or maybe not. However, I still feel like I am making progress with my writing, so I can readily justify the time spent.

There was my waffling for the day.

I still regret killing Alwy. More than Matilda -- even though I loved Matilda more, her death was somewhat justified, since it made a constructive contribution to the story and the evolution of Alred's and her children's characters, as even Cassie recently admitted. Alwy's death, on th other hand, was a little senseless... but I guess that happens sometimes. Dear old Alwy.

As for Sela, I know Devin will have my head, but I think Lena is sweeter. Mind you, I've had the time to dream up quite a lot of back-story for Sela that hasn't been revealed in any way at all, and much of it may never be, but she was a bit on the spunky side. And she could be cruel. I don't think Lena has a particle of cruel in her. But there was no doubt she loved Egelric, though she never was utterly happy with him, and had always known she would not be.

Well.... Lena was not quite 18 when she met Aengus, and so her life has been short and not so easy thus far, though unlike Sela's it is not yet over. And I won't deny that Sela gave up an awful lot to be with Egelric... maybe more than she should have.

As for Lili, she was attracted to more than the knight in him. She was attracted to him. I don't know whether she would have showed up alone at his place if he had been only a peasant, since she also needed a protector at that time, but she picked Egelric because she wanted Egelric.

But hey, there's no doubt Sela loved Egelric and Egelric loved Sela. I just think he was cuter with Lili.

Lena's life was physically very comfortable, but it was also sad and empty. She was raised in a sort of harem to be a sort of concubine. She knew she would never have a husband, never be allowed to keep any boy babies she might have or even see them, and she would not be allowed to be a mother to her girls. As Paul told Alred, all she was supposed to know how to do was "sing and dance and be pretty."

Sela might have had a dirtier, rougher life before she went to live with Egelric, but she was free.

And you're right, you're right, if we had seen more of Sela with Egelric, we might have thought them a very cute couple as well. I've often said I'm sorry I didn't do more with her while she was alive.

I love the fact that my readers have favorite characters and especially that they aren't always the same characters. Likewise it's wonderful to see the debates that rage, since it means they aren't so 2-dimensional that everyone agrees on who is good, who is bad, and who they want to "win".

"Paul speaks a secret" is a perfect example of this: in the first comment Yicke is still pleading for Araphel to have a chance, and in the next comment BonnieLaurel says basically the opposite. It's probably bad fiction writing, since the reader is supposed to feel satisfied when she gets to the end of the book and Miss Y ends up with Mr. X instead of Mr. Z, but since this book has no end, maybe it's OK.

Exactly! I would feel so lucky to have Alred as a friend... but I guess I like a man with a bit of devil in him.

I had a dream about Dantalion this morning, in one of his tall, pale, dark-haired guises. Probably Cian. He kept trying to kiss me and was generally being very annoying. He also had a bit of a cold, and he wasn't getting the concept that he should wipe his nose before trying to kiss me. So I win in the weird Lothere dream contest this morning.

I have two quotes in there now that are showing up randomly. I would like to add some more. My first goal in my learning-to-program Drupal regime is to modify the Random Quote module to allow everyone to add quotes. You could do it now if I enabled it for regular users, but I am so fussy about that sort of thing, I would like to have a slot to enter The Quote, Who Said It, (optionally) Who They Said It To, Chapter Title, and Chapter Number. Otherwise *horrors* you might not do it the way I would do it, and we can't have that.

There's an idea I had before you did, Cassie.... I've been thinking lately I need a way to gather some of the favorite quotes I and you and others are pulling up.

Drupal is a lot more work than WordPress to manage, but it's more extensible, and it allows a lot more community interaction too. It will be an interesting experiment for me to allow others to add content, even if it's only stuff like avatars and quotes for now. And of course you can already create forum topics and polls.

Alred is behaving beautifully with Hetty these days, but she knows the fire is out. I don't want to say he doesn't want to redeem himself with her -- one day he may decide he is lonely for a lady again -- but at the moment he is content with the way things are.

Poor Hetty is not, but you know Hetty... she surely thinks she doesn't deserve to be happy.

Alred is getting a lot of his happiness out of his son and daughter-in-law these days (remember he's the only one who knows about the baby), but once Brit is no longer able to ride, and since it hurts him to get on a horse, he may be looking back to his other "beauty" again. It is way too early for me to say. I haven't even taken pictures for the upcoming Alred + Hetty chapter yet.

He does remember his encounter with Matilda, but he hasn't told anyone. That may be one of the reasons why he has given up on loving Hetty. He's loving a ghost more than ever now.

That quote was from "Britamund sees her future floor", and it is henceforth in the rotation.

“I don’t know whether to laugh or cry,” Britamund said.

“My dear,” Alred said gently, “if ever life gives you the choice, always, always laugh.  There will be days when you will only know how to cry.”

Britamund had not meant her comment as earnestly as he meant his reply, but she smiled at him in gratitude.  She thought it had cost him to make it.

Gunnilda has said a few wise things herself, and Alwy of course, and there is always the wisdom of small children. I'm sure it won't be all Alred, all the time, but I admit I'm generous with him when I'm doling out the quotable quotes.

As for Matilda, I think she did love Alred when she died. I never said it though. Look at the chapter when she was dying:

Her heart went out briefly to the women who moved silently around her.  They moved as if they had not noticed the change.  She would have liked to have told them.  She would have liked to have to have told—

She opened her mouth to speak, to try again to ask for Alred.  Again, only the animal sound came out....

Alred would not see the change in her either.  They were stranded on separate shores.  She could not ask for him.  If he came, she could not speak to him.

But she no longer tried.  If she said nothing, he would sometimes sit a long while and hold her hand—the living hand, so that she could feel him, and his warmth, and the warm tears he dried against her fingers.

But if she tried to speak, he would hear the animal sounds she made and soon go away.  She had never been—would never be—able to explain.

I don't know what she would have explained... She got as far as "She would have liked to have to have told—" and even I wasn't allowed to hear the rest. But I think she loved him. I believe that's what she would have liked to have told him.

I sort of wish she had told him the last time they met. Perhaps it would have helped him live on.

Or perhaps she was wise not to... perhaps she knew he would never have consented to live if he could have gone away with her, sure of her love.

It's been a while since I read that chapter... now I'm all sniffly again. They were so in love!

The lesson for Alred in that chapter was basically, "Yeah, life sucks, but you know what? Death does too." As Matilda told him, "You were supposed to die.  You don’t know how lucky you are."

He discovered he felt just as bad dead as alive ("Despair, he knew now, was not a curse of the body: it was an abiding torment of the soul."). Also he was learning how important it was to be alive and have a body:

It was a bitter thing not to feel his heart beat faster; not to feel the ache in his hands that longed to reach out for her hands, nor the ache in his arms that longed to wrap themselves around her, nor the ache in his body that longed to press itself against hers.

He felt nothing, now, after aching for six years.

Coincidentally (or not ) that is one of the lessons Dantalion is learning at the moment.

Anyway, the sad result of this is that Alred is probably feeling more depressed than ever. But he might find it easier to go on living, now that he knows that death isn't a relief.

That's an excellent quote to have suggested, since it's long enough to let me test quotes that wrap. Looks OK. But I have a lot of re-styling to do on the site, so I'm sure I'll manage to screw it up.

From "Lili has a few thoughts" (I wasn't in fine chapter-naming mettle that day, I see):

“But I think that we should try and try to be happy whenever we can and however we can, even if there is a risk that we will be made unhappy.  I think we must keep trying.”

“It took me forty years to come to that conclusion, Lili.”

“That is because you didn’t have me until then!”

“That is precisely why.”

Yeah, I hope Egelric doesn't forget she said that now. I'm afraid he's going to give up trying to be happy now. He's hurting too much.

And her candy! I can't think of Lili without thinking of candy.

"Lili asks for ladies":

“I told you to bring some of your little dresses with the big bellies, henny.  I knew you would be needing them before we went home.”

“What do you know about it?” she grumbled.

“I was right, wasn’t I?”

“Yes, and that is what is so abominable about you.  You’re never wrong.  But I would not have needed them if I hadn’t eaten so much candy.  So that shows you what you know!”

“It shows I knew how much candy you would eat!” he laughed and reached around her to pinch her behind.

"Gwynn is dispensed from kissing beards":

“Don’t tell your stepmother,” Egelric chuckled, “but they were in the middle of making candy.  As far as I know, that’s all they plan to eat, so I came here in the hope someone would throw me a proper bone at dinner."

"Matilda is welcomed home":

“Do you know what I have always dreamt about?” Lady Lili asked from the bed.

“What?” Mouse asked.

“Candy!”

“Oh, Lili!”

“Don’t you still have some hazelnuts, Mousie?”

“And honey.  And cream,” Mouse said wearily.  “She likes candy all the time,” she explained to Matilda.  “And twice as much when she’s expecting.”

As for Gunnilda, I'm glad you noticed her special relationship with Bertie. I don't know what's going to happen to her, but I have a feeling that relationship will be very important to her in the future. If Bertie had been just a bit older when Alwy died, she would have gone to live with him and would not have married Ethelmund at all. For what that's worth...

Nice try!

We will see Magog before the new year, that's all I will say for now. I don't want to ruin anyone's suspense.

However, although I am certain we will see Lasrua before the end of the year as well, I really have no idea what to do with the poor girl. I think she will just be hanging out with Gwynn and Condal and Leila's girls for now, but maybe I will have an idea during one of those conversations.

Maybe if I could figure out what, exactly, is her great failing or great fear, it would give me an idea about how she could overcome it to find happiness and self-fulfillment, blah blah blah... It worked on Paul and Cat and Ethelwyn, after all.

You see, I've set myself up with another one of those relationships where you want them to be together and I just can't figure out how to pull it off. (Though it's much easier for me than one of those unsolvable love-triangles à la Vash-Malcolm-Iylaine or Araphel-Osh-Flann...)

There is indeed a technical problem that I haven't been able to solve (aside from Malcolm's inability to commit or whatever his problem is)... if he marries her elf-style, he either can't leave the valley again, or he's going to have to take her with him everywhere he goes... an overwhelming difficulty for Mr. Seven League Boots, at least once she starts having children.

So Lasrua would have to give that up. I am sure she knows it. And I don't know how she feels about that, especially since the last time they met there was enough chemistry to spontaneously synthesize TNT. One would forgive her for concluding that he was just as good a mate as an elf with fire nature would have been, and especially since she didn't seem all that wild about her fiancé. (Osh once said "She’s more in love with the idea of a husband than with Lor himself.")

Still, she's sixteen. I would imagine she figures it would all work out somehow, if only he would come back.

Heh, I can't wait to get some girl talk going between her and Gwynn and Connie. But first I need to give Gwynn something more substantial to sigh about than her little girlish crush on Ralf. Let me know if you think of somone.

You know, there is a certain violet-eyed Irishman on his way to Lothere...

Lovely little forum you've got going here. Another great way for me to procrastinate! Homework? What's that?

Haha. I caught this after I had already changed it. With a name, face and eyes like that, how could I resist? Plus, I'll be nice and leave Brude for Verity, should she so desire.

Why did you kill him? Um. To make a better story?? You are very right about the black hole of seduction though.

Oooh, I love the new color scheme and avatars! And the new quote from Tiana...LOL! Hilarious.
As if I needed more ways to procrastinate with the Kingdom of Lothere. Sigh. But I have all my work done up until Tuesday, so I'm feeling pretty okay about this...

And also Wynflaed and Sir Sigefrith...does Leofric have one? I can't remember. And Iylaine! I don't think there's one for her yet, either. Or either of the Malcolms. I'll be on the lookout for good shots of Vash. Still looking for good quotes too, maybe from Alwy or Egelric. They both had some pretty lovely gems in their time.

"Oh dear," as Eadie would say! I'm sure you'll find a good one! You can always choose more than one...there are just SO MANY characters in this epic. The avatar of Sela in particular is really beautiful.
Edit: The new ones of Sir Sigefrith and Magog...phwoar as Verity would say, hee hee.

Cassie, those last avatars of Sir Sigefrith and Magog were what I had in mind when I was thinking of photogenic characters. I am working on a chapter with Caedwulf and Whitehand now, and I took a ton of pictures of Stein and Sir Sigefrith goofing off and/or gossiping in the corner, largely because Sigefrith was looking smoldering-hot over there in the torchlight. (The avatar is from that scene.) Unfortunately, the way the chapter is shaping up, I don't think I'll get to use any of them. I was trying out a new set of eyes on Sigefrith and Caedwulf, and they are both looking better than ever. Something about those new eyes is quite seductive. Leofric is so getting those eyes. (Only natural, since Sigefrith got his eyes from his father.)

And, François, one of the reasons why the Old Man is a recurring character (aside from the cuuuuute) is comic relief!

I did notice that, but she's an elf so I have an excuse. I noticed the same thing about Aia yesterday when I was taking pictures of her. I think they're both quite lovely.

We had very few pictures of Sela which weren't taken in the dark. I didn't realize that until yesterday when I was looking for some! I had a very hard time finding one for Sela.