Building an Abbey Church

Submitted by wawa180859 on Sun, 02/07/2010 - 02:12.

Well .... the Abbey Church is slowly coming along. I did a few alterations to the floor plan to allow better barrel-vaulted ceilings. It's taken about 4 different attempts to get it how "I" envision it. I'm not sure if it's what you would envision though.

Here's a few pics to let ya see what I've been doing. I hope you'll like them. It is far from finished though. When's the wedding again?

The main nave is 3 stories. I haven't put in the wall textures as you can see. The first picture is looking down from the clerestory towards the altar area. In behind the altar will be a smaller chapel .... The Lady's Chapel. I read in the Wiki that it was common in English churches to have a small chapel dedicated to the Virgin behind the altar. I need to find something to "anchor" the Crucifix. Right now it's just floating over the main altar. But Hey! Christ walked on water ... why couldn't he float mid-air?

The second photo is taken from the tower doorway towards the crossing and past that towards the main altar area. The two side naves are only 2 storeys tall with a gallery. As you can see, the floor tiles can't be covered so it looks odd to me. I haven't found anything yet that I can "move objects on" to cover it. I know I have something in my main downloads folder .... but it's not all installed into my AGS (Any Game Starter).

The third photo is just a little back from the crossing of the nave and the side entrance .... again towards the altar. The small chapel on the side entrance is the Baptistry, I'm imagining?

The fourth and fifth pictures are a closer view towards the main altar and the crossing. The sixth and seventh pictures are what the lower naves look like. I didn't take a photo of the view from the gallery .... .

Then the remaining photos are the exterior. You can sorta glimpse a little of the courtyard centred in the Chapter House, kitchens and Calefactory. The outer buildings are all 2 storeys as well. Those pillars in the shots are the guides to flatten the flooring areas of the building. I keep having to flatten the barrel-vaulting when I enter the lot .... for some reason.

I find it's rather bright ... maybe because I haven't added the wall textures. It looks like you have plans for stairs in one of the side chapels next to the Chapter House. I haven't installed a cellar/crypt for the building yet.... if that was the intention. I thought a family mausoleum outside the Chapter House could be built if a basement wasn't needed. I know it would be created as support for the edifice, but .... let me know.

Where the towers are situated, I altered them slightly. You only had 2 spaces to allow for an entrance. I imagine the main entrance would be located between the towers. I wish someone had created a medieval looking 2 storey/ 2 tiled doorway for the minster's main entrance. The only one I know is by TheJim07 .... but it's made to resemble a 2 storey door for Versailles with a glass french door. I think he mentioned to me that it would be difficult to recolor to resemble a medieval wooden doorway. I had asked him in a PM if he could create one .... but I guess he's too busy. (I think he's creating for Sims 3 now anyway).

So far, this is "my wedding present for Ogive". I want to believe that Sigefrith is sparing no expense in building this church. It would become a symbol of his power, wouldn't it. A grand cathedral for his kingdom. Maybe the Pope will come to the consecration. (Gregory dies in May 1086, then Victor III has only until September 1086 when he dies). It could probably put Ogive into a tizzy having such an illustrious dignitary at her wedding!

I hope you'll like it. If not, I can eliminate all the decor so far and send you the shell of the building to texture as you envision. (I am trying to copy Durham Cathedral / Dunfermline Church / and bits & pieces of a few other English cathedrals. I really want to find a tutorial for recoloring that rose window. I've found some great stain glass windows that I hope could be used to recolor the mesh. I'm also thinking about putting a central tower above the crossing like the Durham Cathedral, but I would have to re-do the ceiling. Let me know if you may want that added before I build too far into the plans. I'd have to eliminate the entire interior to start that. And believe me ... it took time to get those gothic columns done.

General Discussion

This looks so awesome!!!

Submitted by Ravenfeather on Sun, 02/07/2010 - 15:38.

This looks so awesome!!! Can't believe it's Sims. It's such a fantastic job, and to imagine it will be integrated to the story ...

Well .... I'm not sure if

Submitted by wawa180859 on Sun, 02/07/2010 - 15:53.

Well .... I'm not sure if Jenny will use it. I do have another idea that's more simple in detailing .... following the exact floorplan Jenny created. I have to try it out later when I get home from work. So .... we'll see what she thinks. She may not like them for her concept of the story. It wouldn't hurt my feelings if she didn't. The fun is trying to make them.

Err... you don't need to

Submitted by Lothere on Sun, 02/07/2010 - 15:53.

Err... you don't need to make a minster for me, you know. I already have the abbey well underway:

You can see work is progressing on the minster. Saint Catherine's Chapel is at tip-top left, and the monastic buildings are on the right half of the image. The problem with the royal wedding is not the building... it's having 40 Sims on the lot at one time! I don't want to do a ridiculously poorly-attended royal wedding just so I can say I "did" the wedding. It will be the real thing or not at all.

Those celings are quite amazing-looking, what a pity you have to keep flattening them!! I will have to test that out before I make the attempt myself. I don't want a lot that's too buggy. Anyway it's the chapter house I would like to see with a barrel vaulted roof. I am planning to make a trussed timber roof in the minster, at least since I downloaded some beams and trusses I want to try out.

The west end of the minster is intended for the narthex at this point, with the stoup. I may build a porch at the west end to serve as baptistery since I doubt Sigefrith will finish the rest of my plans for the minster in his lifetime.

There is indeed a set of stairs leading up to the monks' dormitory. Right now this is outdoors, but it will be inside later on. They come this way when they get up at night and go to the chapel for prayers.

Next to that is the little room that will be a chapel of some sort. Let Eadie or someone pick a favorite saint.

Right now I don't have any plans for a Lady Chapel. I don't know how common that was in the 11th century. No space for an ambulatory either, unless I move the altar forward and sneak it in behind. I don't want to get too far ahead of myself, it takes time to build in stone, after all!

Sigefrith's family crypt is directly beneath Saint Catherine's chapel. (We've seen Sigefrith and Aelfden in the crypt and coming out of it into the chapel in "Sigefrith struggles in the snare.")

The monks' crypt, where Aelfden's tomb is located, is directly under the entry next to Saint Catherine's. There are also crypts underneath the floor of the upcoming minster. That's how it was that the monks were traipsing across wooden bridges to get from the dormitory to the chapel last summer: first the workmen cut the crypts, then they paved them over, forming the future floor of the minster. There are three rows of crypts, running parallel to the aisle, and as you might guess the future stone piers of the abbey will be built along the crypt "walls" so that the weight will be supported.

My God, I wish Sigefrith could see your pictures, he would be in construction heaven. I really love the "13th century preview" of these buildings, I'm glad to see that the final product has a real presence and is in proportion with the other buildings. Right now Saint Catherine's looks like such a rinky-dink affair next to the monastic buildings, and I think even the circa 1088 minster is going to look somewhat stumpy.

Apologies to everyone! I

Submitted by wawa180859 on Sun, 02/07/2010 - 23:34.

Apologies to everyone! I had re-read my first post during my break this afternoon after reading Ravenfeather's comment and realized that it sounded like a presumption that I was building it "for" you to include into your story. I really shouldn't post something at 2 am. I hadn't intended it to sound that way. I'm a little embarrassed that I may have upset or misled anyone in my excitement to share my attempts to interpret Jenny's plans. Hope y'all forgive me .... but I do love the building challenge .... and learning new things with all the "boolprop" cheats. And if you liked the finished product ... or anyone else .... Hey, I'd love to be able to give it to you. As I said "a wedding present for Ogive". Just to have. (Does that make sense?) Plus, it's kept me occupied from having to watch the dreadful stuff on TV.

I was excited when you posted your plans in the comment thread and saw it as a challenge to build it. Especially with the way you like to double the walls to have the "thickness" for a foundation wall. I LUV the way you are building it in relation to the storyline. I guess it is going to take a few centuries to complete the final edifice, so I'm glad the shell of the building -- the 13th century preview -- I did gives a little hint as to what a fantastic building it will/can become. I hadn't thought about it taking centuries to finish to be honest.

I hope it's okay to keep building it though .... and sharing "the attempts". It could open ideas from you and the others about different building techniques. I've several ideas that I want to experiment with. It's been fun / frustrating etc trying to realize the plans. Like I mentioned .... whodda thunk to draw it out. (BTW, I'd love a blank copy of the grid if you have one kicking around). I don't have a clue how to create one .... and if it's an Excel spreadsheet .... I'm lost.

Those beams/trusses. Would they be the construction set by "tigmomX4" at MTS2? I downloaded them ... to try out like you are thinking. If not, care to share the link? I took a couple of pictures of the barrel vaulting I had done in the Chapter House. But again, I had to flatten the roofline to have it correct itself when I first entered the lot. Otherwise, it would've looked like that monstrous picture I posted awhile back when we first started talking about this type of construction. I can see it may become a pain in the a**.

The other thing I came across was I ran out of walls! I had to use Numenor's unlevelled walls to finish 2/3 of what you see in the exterior shots. Anyway, the pics of the Chapter House (with tables/chairs included for an example).

So, again, Apologies if I misled my thoughts in the original post. I promise to go to bed first next time or maybe not! hehehe

My eyes are definitely

Submitted by Van on Sun, 02/07/2010 - 23:30.

My eyes are definitely bulging looking at all these pictures. Dear God, you are both architectural visionaries. I wish I had the vision and talent--let alone patience--to build something so awesome

I didn't think your comment

Submitted by Ann on Mon, 02/08/2010 - 03:27.

I didn't think your comment was misleading, Wawa. And I agree with Van. My eyes are bulging too. It looks amazing!

And if you liked the finished product ... or anyone else .... Hey, I'd love to be able to give it to you.

Are you serious?

Oh, no, I'm flattered! I

Submitted by Lothere on Mon, 02/08/2010 - 05:44.

Oh, no, I'm flattered! I just wanted to make sure you didn't think the obstacle to doing a chapter or two at Ogive's wedding was the building aspect. (In fact, I love building.) But it's really neat to see how you've interpreted my plans... very much what I had in mind, in fact! I wouldn't have put my plans up if I was jealous of them. The most fun I ever have building is when I have a plan to work from -- an old castle plan, or even a few photos of someone else's lot on mts2. I don't know why, but it's more fun than building from scratch. (Maybe reminds me of my Lego days...)

The beams and trusses... not the set you're thinking of, I think. That set is more like a modern house-framing set. if I recognize the name. I downloaded a different set within the last month or two. I don't remember from where -- I usually stray no farther than modthesims, unless someone points me to a download somewhere else, and I end up scarfing everything on the site. I will try to remember to check the source next weekend when I fire up my game. I hope they work out for me, because all my houses should have timbered roofs! I've come a long way with building and with medieval CC, but I still look at pictures of real medieval manors and churches and sigh...

Phewww! I thought I may

Submitted by wawa180859 on Mon, 02/08/2010 - 12:01.

Phewww! I thought I may have caused a faux paux. @ Ann ..... when I finish playing with the ideas, I definitely would share it. That's if Jenny doesn't mind! Sounds like she wouldn't by her comments though. I want to still play with a few concepts with her plans.

I'll try to find those trusses / beams at MTS2. Who knows what other treasure I may have missed. I DO love that site too. Between that site and Black Pearl Sims .... they keep me busy searching for things. They are the 2 sites I frequent daily.

Can I create that grid using Notepad or Word, do you think?

For building inspiration, I discovered that some of the items created for Second Life look great. I've bookmarked their medieval page for future reference. Some of their items, I wish, could be converted for Sims 2. And they have some fabulous textures, but many of them have a watermark on them so they won't be copied. (Damn them! ) That link ..... if you're curious.

https://www.xstreetsl.com/modules.php?CategoryID=116&SearchCurrentCatego...

Do you mean the grid with

Submitted by Van on Mon, 02/08/2010 - 12:23.

Do you mean the grid with Lothere's building plans? That's Microsoft Excel. To get the cells in that nice square shape, use CTRL + A to highlight them all, then adjust the width of one of the columns to 20 pixels (this will then adjust all the columns).

Thanks Van!! Sadly, I don't

Submitted by wawa180859 on Mon, 02/08/2010 - 12:50.

Thanks Van!! Sadly, I don't know how to use Excel . I know ..,

No problem For the purpose

Submitted by Van on Mon, 02/08/2010 - 15:38.

No problem

For the purpose of building plans, all you really need to know about Excel is where the Fill Color and Border buttons are:

That's Excel 2007, but most other versions are fairly similar.

The thing about Excel is that if you're using it for something other than its intended purpose, it lends itself to exploration quite well. I used to make maps with it as a kid, all the while with my dad looking over my shoulder and going "Uh... you know that we use this at work for statistics and finances, right?"

So here's the funny part! I

Submitted by wawa180859 on Mon, 02/08/2010 - 18:04.

So here's the funny part! I open it up ..... and then I stare in horror since I haven't the foggiest what's next. Maybe I'll stick to winging it!

You definitely do a good job

Submitted by Van on Tue, 02/09/2010 - 08:26.

You definitely do a good job of "winging it". Whatever you do, keep it up--that's a beautiful church

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