Love triangles: Identity vs. Essence

I approve this message

So do I

Lothere! I am sick and swooning all over the swoony place!

Tiffany is going to kill us.

I thought that too.

Hehe, perfect. It also not only reminds me of Pride and Prejudice, but of Flann and Osh as well. Random combination, but that's what went through my mind.

It's the morn of Halloween, so I believe it to be quite fitting if I killed you all.

Mwahahaha! *waves leafy banner*

Just as I was thinking of Kraaia!

The message: So right!

I am intrigued by your comment, Nimue. Do you think Flann & Osh see each other's essences?

Random picture my ass. XD

Of course Kraaia sees Vash's essence and vice-versa. This calls for a bunny dance!

And I loveee the message. It applies to Finn and Gwynn as well (except who's in that triangle? Connie? Cedric?), but then again, everything applies to FWYNN. Or at least I always manage to find a connection.

It doesn't have to refer to a love triangle. It doesn't even have to refer to a love story. The "journey" of the story can simply be the protagonist moving beyond his identity to his essence. It was just that the love triangle comment at the end of that post was really what made all the light bulbs blink on, because I myself have such difficulty figuring out who TRULY belongs with whom sometimes.

But I agree, even without a triangle, this article makes great sense with Fwynn too: they both have absolutely monolithic identities, but when it comes to each other, they seem to become as transparent as glass. (Vash whenever in the same room as Kraaia, as well. And Vash himself, on occasion, sees through the kaleidoscopic Kraaia-shards to the perfect prism at her core.)

It also makes me have further thoughts about Egelric. Who has ever seen through to the essence of him? Lili came close--at least she knew it was there:

But he had always seemed a solitary man to her, even when surrounded by his friends. It was one of the things that had attracted her to him. She was a girl who liked to learn and know and get to the heart of things, and she had an idea that a lifetime would not be enough to get to know this inscrutable being. It had seemed to her that this was the sort of man she ought to marry, but she had come to fear that a lifetime would not be enough to get to the heart of him. And that was all she wanted now.

But Lili's "lifetime" was too tragically short.

And Alred so utterly fails to see it. All he has ever seen is the granite shell, and his few glimpses inside have frightened him:

Egelric’s eyes opened, though his glowering brows did not lift, and against their darkness the reflected candlelight seemed a glimpse into a hellish fire. For the second time Alred felt a twitching urge to cross himself, and again he did not dare.

The only person who has put in the "lifetime" required to get to know this inscrutable being, and the only person who has ever really known him I think, is Gunnilda. From one of my favorite chapters:

She had no idea he had come to this. Was the Duke blind? How could one “lose patience” with a man in such a state? One did not “lose patience” with a dying man for the troubles occasioned by his failing health. It made no more sense to lose patience with a man who was so sick in his soul.

I could go on with other characters and other romances, but I think you get the idea!

Yeah, I do. And Gunnie is so right about Egelric there. It's so odd how that chapter is really old, yet it still applies today. I guess Egelric was always Egelric, and he will always be that way... which makes me wonder if his soul will ever be truly "cured".

Insofar as this story is so much "the story of Egelric" I think he will be "cured" in some way. More than any storyline, his storyline has showed a novel-like progression of crises and failures and increasing stakes, so it would not surprise me if it had a novel-like resolution.

LOL Emma! It looks to me more like she's thinking "Should I tell him his fly is undone?" And Vash is thinking "Oh, shit, my fly is undone. Is she gonna notice?"

For Flann and Osh seeing each other's essences...well, almost. I think the reason I thought of it is because Flann does end up choosing Osh rather than Araphel. Araphel's very definition as an angel on earth does not allow her to see his essence. Then, I think Osh sees Flann's essence through all the walls she puts up. The only problem is that I am not sure that Flann sees Osh's complete essence - I think that she is getting there, and sees more than she did in Araphel, but I do not think she is there yet.

That's what I was wondering. I do think Osh seems something deep in Flann -- perhaps something we haven't entirely seen yet, or that her late shrewishness and flirtation with Ferdie have overshadowed. (I think we did see some of it on the night they wed, though.)

But I also have doubts that Flann really sees Osh for what he is. Kraaia sees him much more clearly, ever since the moment she noticed he painted the inside of the bed frame, which no one would ever see.

It's worth noting that Osh seems to have told Kraaia a few things he has never told his wife, however. Perhaps he knows she would not understand.

How terrible.

I've seen soooo many couples that can't share things with each other because of one partner's lack of understanding or depth enough to seriously meditate on what the other has to say.

Osh is pretty amazing. Even if I think he's too good for Flann.

~~ Something occurs, and the hero must take a risk, stepping briefly out of his identity and revealing essence.

That's exactly what I meant about Gwynn, Jenny.

Sorry for obsessing. ^^

Yes! It doesn't have to involve Finn, after all. Gwynn needs to take a risk and drop the mask for a day. *still thinking*

I guess the closest she's come to that is when she wore that Matilda-like dress in "Condal is not the spectacle", but even that was more of an act of childish rebellion than showing her true essence.

I think the closest Gwynn has come to showing her true essence is in "Gwynn is rescued":

“Wanna drink, huh?”

She just couldn't help herself!

Seriously, what I want to see out of Gwynn as a character is a moment of ballsy generosity. She has shown signs of both, but not together. That's where she'll surpass her mother as a character -- Matilda was definitely ballsy, but she was never particularly kind.

Gwynn is growing balls lately, but she seems to be using them for sinister purposes -- mainly either by meddling in Connie's love life for less-than-generous reasons, or by shoving Finn around and dressing provocatively and just generally being bad. (Acting JUST LIKE her mother, in brief.)

That's why I want to see Gwynn do something really GOOD with her Matildaesque superpowers. She needs to show her father and her family that she's stronger than they think, and she needs to stand up for something, in spite of the something being "just not the thing" to quote Lady Anna. She needs to defy her father and her family in some way, I think. In some way that would ordinarily be inappropriate according to her standards for the conduct of young ladies. It has to be wrong... but nevertheless The Right Thing.

*still thinking*

It's true...Gwynn has her mother's ballsiness, but she has a true sweetness and generosity that Matilda never really had. She really wants to give everybody the benefit of the doubt and believe in what is good and noble in the world.

And for that, I adore her. She may be self-centered, but she isn't selfish.

More and more I am thinking Gwynn is going to grow up into something really spectacular. She's going to be a force to be reckoned with!

In a way, it's too bad she isn't fated to marry Caedwulf. She would have made quite a queen.

True, but Caedwulf doesn't deserve her. And we wouldn't have FWYNN!

I agree with both of you. She has a good heart, like Alred says. I imagine her using her superpowers for something romantic, like arranging for two people who love each other but aren't allowed to be married to elope or something. Hmm...

Hmm not inherently a bad idea, but the elopement idea sounds like the sort of thing Romantic-Identity Gwynn would do -- e.g. helping Connie elope with someone her family doesn't approve of. Because it would be SO ROMANTIC. I don't trust Gwynn's judgment in such a situation.

Ooh, I can also imagine her providing an alibi for a friend who wanted to see a guy she liked but was forbidden to see -- JUST LIKE IN FAIRY TALES -- except the girl gets pregnant or something. (And perhaps Gwynn does not even realize this is a possibility...)

I kinda would like to see Cedric involved in this somehow. He's such a do-gooder and such an easily squashed fellow at the same time. It would be fun to see Cedric and Gwynn teaming up for some noble cause: whenever Cedric would feel like giving up, Gwynn would get all ballsy on him and make him keep going.

*keeps thinking*

Yeah, I was thinking of Cedric being involved too! They really would make quite a super team. I see them helping people like Connie or Matilda, but they could be easily fooled or taken advantage of by less scrupulous individuals.

Hehe, what's with all this thinking?

*starts thinking*

How do you think it would go if Finn ended up kidnapped by Lar and his lot, as a result of Gwynn going all crusadey for the kisor and having no clue? Because then Gwynn could drag lonely, smitten, Cubby-less Cedric along with her to go rescue him! I mean, that sort of begs the question of why no one else would go after him, but maybe they would start and then Lar would go all show-of-force and then Paul and Osh would have to be off somewhere else, or paralyzed by their wives being all ew, Egelric, or stuck at home for some other healing elven plot reason. But probably off somewhere else. And Sigefrith would be like, eek, we have to stage a rescue mission, but meanwhile Lar is making threats and so he has to keep it on the down-low? So Gwynn gets all righteously angry, and la, the beginning.

I feel like that would make Gwynn seem kind of Sigi-like, though, so I don't know.

Don't worry, there's plenty of room in Lothere for a couple more ballsy women without everyone seeming like Sigi. (Or so I hope.) Gwynn and Sigi are particularly unlike each other, I find.

I admit, the idea of Gwynn somehow getting caught up in elven affairs keeps coming back to me. It would be quite something if she got all pro-kisór and Finn was loyal to his khírrón upbringing, and that could be yet one more thing for them to fight about. And Finn and Lar do seem to have some unfinished business between them. (Let's not forget that Lar baptized Finn to save him from Dre, aside from threatening to squish his lungs flat.)

*still thinking*

That's an interesting idea. Gwynn could somehow come in contact with Aia, and she could learn of the ways of the khisór and how evil the khírrón are.

How she would meet Aia, I have no idea.

The other possible way for her to learn of their situation is through Aelfden. Of course, Lar has been very circumspect with Aelfden, and Aelfden keeps everything about Lar to himself so far, but at least Gwynn sees Aelfden on a regular basis, and even one-on-one.

That makes me think of Flann, too. Aelfden seems to have a close relationship with Flann, he might say something to her. (But then again, Flann has such a big mouth, I don't know that Aelfden would trust her with such information.)

She does? I don't recall ever seeing the two interact, but maybe Aelfden has a similar effect on her that he does on Flann. Maybe he senses her loneliness? I would really like to see a chapter between these two. (Oh my, I was typing this before I read the second paragraph! Spooky! )

Also, I found this old quote of yours (in a Fwynn! chapter. Shocker.) that I think is pertinent to the subject of Gwynn:

Whereas Gwynn is constantly trying to be something... she is constantly posing and pretending and wondering how she looks to people and what people think of her.

I dunno, I just felt like adding that. Again, rereading this, I wonder if Aelfden notices that about Gwynn.

I love the idea of Gwynn and Aia meeting. But I have no idea how that will come to be.

Another possibility is for Gwynn to find out about what happened to Sela (does she even know?) and come to the conclusion that the evil people who do horrible things have to have gone through a lot of hardships (Egelric). I think that's the only way she could possibly deal with "the facts" considering how she is.

Hmmm… just out of curiosity, who do you see as the essence in the Vashmalaina love triangle? Because it seems to me that both guys represent Iylaine’s identity to an extent—Vash being her identity among the elves, and Malcolm being her identity among the men. Who would you say leans more toward being or becoming the essence, if that makes any sense?

Maybe neither of them are right for her? That’s another possibility. Maybe the one person in her life she really needs to “get with” (even if not necessarily “live with”) is her dad.

But in fact I do think Malcolm is the Essence Guy. (Not to be confused with the Old Spice Guy.  )

Iylaine and Vash are both in love with someone they don’t even know, which must be the ultimate example of loving someone for Identity reasons. It’s no wonder: Iylaine has been confused about her identity all her life. It makes sense that she would want someone who could teach her about who she is, and make her feel like it’s an OK thing to be.

The thing is, a noble elf and selfless future leader is not really what she is inside.

And beyond the “is she a man or is she an elf” question (which remains a question of Identity), I think Iylaine and Malcolm are just plain suited to each other. Malcolm has always felt that, but Iylaine has often been too busy being confused about her Identity.

But what Malcolm has to offer is exactly what Iylaine wants from a husband, and vice versa. I won’t say Malcolm has been a perfect husband, but a lot of things we have criticized him for (before the blow-up) – his “I’m the man of the house” benevolent dictatorship, his utter lack of romance and adventure – are fine with her. She wants a man who is an unmovable rock.

Likewise Malcolm wants a woman who will be content to stay quietly at home, and when in public be content to sit in the sidelines, not have too many opinions, and look beautiful and smile. And that’s just what Iylaine wants out of life.

Malcolm is her best friend, and has been since she was about 6 years old. Nobody knows Iylaine better than he does. And of course Iylaine knows no man better than Malcolm. The problem is that Iylaine is convinced that there is “something more” out there. Actually the problem is that Iylaine didn’t date anyone but Malcolm. If she had, she might have realized that people are different, nobody is perfect, infatuation is not love, and pink-​floaty-​heart romantic love isn’t the most important kind.

Also it should be said that Iylaine’s problems with Malcolm don’t necessarily have anything to do with Malcolm. She is so angry right now because she feels that no one cares about what she wants, and that no one wants her. But up until just recently “no one” has been Egelric, Vash, her elven parents, and other people; and she had just been taking it out on Malcolm, who was the one person who consistently did care, and did want her.

So, I mean, I am not sure Iylaine’s problems are even of a love triangle nature at this point. She is using Vash as a focal point for her frustration, but I don’t think it’s really about Iylaine trying to decide whom she really loves.

As for her treatment of Malcolm, it may be self-​sabotage in a way. Her biggest fear is that he’ll abandon her like everyone else has, and in the way of deeply frightened, troubled people, she is unconsciously working to realize her fear. Sadly, it seems to have worked.

None of the couples I want ever get and/​or stay together. Darn.