Wow, I've found this background into the Elvish society extremely fascinating and sad too. No wonder there's a lot of disillusionment among the ranks.

Their laws prevent them from expanding, yet they're too stubborn, or too blindsided to think outside the box. "Tradition states we should do this and nothing else", which actually mirrors a few societies in the here and now.

Obviously, there are a few elves who have exiled themselves, simply because they've had a taste of the 'other' side, the human aspect. But that still means that their elvish blood will eventually thin out and be replaced with that of humans.

Thank you for sharing that insight into the normally secretive world of the Elves.

So..would they allow inbreeding to preserve their species? That would probably lead to some freaky genetic deformities though, unless their DNA is free of mutation. It'd be really awesome if you let Vash have a romance with a kisor elf. He really needs to get over Iylaine.

The male Kisor babies won't grow-up? But I always imagined that Vash would crack down on the killings on either side when he became Khor. I kind of feel sorry for Sorin. He isn't the best leader in the world and he's having to rule under exceptional circumstances.
I'm one of those who doesn't think that Vash could get over Iylaine anytime soon. And he's already bound to two people. What would a third do to him? Speaking of that, why doesn't he have the Bright Lady separate him from Malcolm? I can't imagine that either of them really desires that connection. And Malcolm would be free to visit Scotland.
Maybe Vash could marry Rua. What is her nature? Magog is too flighty. hehe, My thought patterns look so incoherent on paper- er, screen.

Well Devin has been summoned!

Now Lothere if you wanted Vash and Aia to be together I wouldn't mind at all. But maybe it's not for the best. I don't want Aia to be a concubine so I'm hoping that she will catch the eye of a young scot (Lugaid mac Eochada, or an older Scot who is the second son of Aed and he's single because his wife Eithne is dead).

"And Malcolm would be free to visit Scotland."

Not unless Ilyaine was unbound from Vash and went with him because she and Malcolm are still bound.

Did Iylaine become unbound from Vash when he did that? I've always just assumed that she was still bound even though he wasn't.

Oh yeah. Of course Iylaine would have to go with him. I wasn't thinking.

Malcolm is free of Vash -- it's Vash who isn't free of Malcolm.

I'm at work so I can't look up references, but this is something that came up when Kiv saved Cat... he didn't really know what Vash did and how he did it, and anyway Kiv didn't have the control that Vash did.

If you think of this thing called "life" as being something that is carried by blood, Vash was able to sort of strain that out and hold it back so Malcolm only got a trace of it (or perhaps none?), in spite of getting an awful lot of Vash's blood. Malcolm got more of Vash's life from Iylaine's blood than he did from Vash himself.

As for Kiv, when he tried it, he and Cat became one in a very real sense -- if you read that chapter again, I said it was like two fires coming together: there is just one fire now, one life inhabiting two bodies. So, I wonder what would happen if one of those bodies died..........

I know this is all confusing and hand-wavy at the moment, but I hope to clear up some things towards the end of December. Frankly I find this whole part of the story a bit silly, but I'm committed now. I might as well see it through.

Perhaps the idea isn't silly, but it's one of those things that gets very complicated very quickly when you get down to actually implementing it in a story. (Hence some of the questions and confusion we've had about it.) There are a few inconsistencies and corners I've painted myself into, and if I were writing the whole story again I might do some things differently in that regard.

Vash is an only child because he's the Khor's son... That's the way it's "supposed" to be. As for Iylaine's parents, they were told to have Iylaine and no son at all, since they were supposed to get Elfleda's son whenever he came along.

As will shortly be revealed (or so I plan...) they actually have to get permission and/or a command to have a baby before they go ahead with it.

awww still a Sigefrith & Eadie fan or two out there.

The elven "aversion" to large families isn't a biological thing, so there's no good reason for Iylaine to have it, since she didn't grow up among them. On the contrary, without that cultural brake on her libido...

Maud is still a baby on the breast, so there's no chance of any more little turtles, squirrels, badgers or other critters any time soon. But we will have plenty of other new babies next year to keep us happy.

I took Eadie and Sigefrith's marriage with a grain of salt but I'm happy that their happy.

Yes! I vote for a happy chapter!!!

Penelope, I wonder why you ask me that. The only thing I can think of is this bit from "Paul lets a terrible idea in":

“Rua, we are sorry for you, but you will see that this was a very lucky thing.  That is not the sort of elf a sweet lady like you should marry.  You are not strong like your father’s sister.”

“What does Madra have to do with it?” Paul snorted.  “She has a puppy, not a husband.”

“No, my son,” his father said mournfully.  “The elf Ris is a mad wolf, but Madra pulled out all his teeth.”

“What is that supposed to mean?” Paul asked.

“They are all like that in that family.”

“Like what?”

“Everyone knew what his father and his father’s father were.  Once when—”

“I don’t!” Paul cried.

Osh raised a hand to quiet him.  “They promised your aunt that the elf Ris was different.  But once, when Lor was still a baby, the elf Ris came home with blood under his fingernails.  I don’t know what Madra did to him—”

“What are you trying to say?” Paul demanded.

“Did you ever wonder why Ris’s father likes to go alone into the forest at night?”

Paul wrinkled his nose thoughtfully and tucked the end of his sister’s braid beneath the knot he had made with it.  All the children were frightened of the elf Dru, and around their fires they would scare one another with stories about his supposed abilities to transform himself into foul creatures and to curse one with a look.

“Because he’s strange,” he muttered after a moment.

“Because he’s hunting,” Osh said.  “But not animals.”

“Women?” Paul cried.

“Elves, I mean.  Women too, perhaps.  His father was the same way.  The elf Ris is the same way, but Madra keeps him on a leash.  The elf Lor must have been the same way.”

But you make me wonder whether I have mentioned something else somewhere else.

He is not a werewolf in the traditional sense, and certainly not in the Sims sense. But, err... funny you should ask, I think.

In fact Osh was being a little evasive with Paul. The term he used was not quite exact. Paul would have gone through the roof if he had said it as it was. Once again, we will learn more about that later, blah blah etc. (This time, though, I can give you a date and say it's quite likely that a lot will be coming out in the open towards the end of December.)

It was actually Dru that saved Iylaine, but the point stands. Dru is Ris's father. And Lar's.

Was Druze ever Khor or did he die before that could happen? (Oh the questions that plague me as I put my hair up for the night.)

Oooo so is that what Vash means when he says it ends with me? Seeing as he's a descendant of Druz?

*is intrigued*

Oh.

POOR VASHY POO! ALL ALONE IN STUPID ELFLAND!

Nobody to make babies with.

Come on, Lothere! Whip up a plot to prove that foreshadowing!

From "Malcolm goes on"

And still he loved her—madly, wildly, as if he knew he would not have her long.

DO IT!

*brushes off topless Malcolm banner*

URG! Will anyone object to a comprise on both parts? That Vash gets *one* baby for Iylane and Malcolm still gets to keep her? But no, that would be too easy.... and messy.

*Waves leafy nature-man topless Malcolm banner half-heartedly*
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Smile Don't Frown, Look Up Don't look Down
oh you heart stealer, don't shy away, tell me your name!

And after they both die, she could be her own woman. Ooops, by then Egelric would be 102 and then he would finally have her.

But how bad would it be if Dunstan had her and Brit had Brinstan and everyone would be happy then? But then Malcolm and Vash would both have to be dead, and NO ONE would like that. Or maybe we could have the lost dream of Vash+Kiv=cave+2.5 kids.

But, if I'm correct, Vash is in for a world of hurt in the upcoming weeks, judging by the "lost my will to live" hairstyle Lothere put on the Vash-hair poll. So maybe Vash's real death is right around the corner.

But if I had to choose who Iylaine should be with, it would be Dunstan, sorry Brit .
*dumps Malcolm/Vash hybrid flag in the trash, holds up the ponytail Dunstan Flag*

And I'm probably the one person who's on the non-existent Team Dunstan, aren't I?
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Smile Don't Frown, Look Up Don't look Down
oh you heart stealer, don't shy away, tell me your name!

Meh, you're right about the Moody Dunstan part, but what about new improved pony tailed Dunstan?? POSSIBILITIES?

.....probably not, ooookay so scrap the team Dunstan, then I'm migrating over to the team Vash wagon!

*tries to rescue leafy Team Vash banner from the incinerator and gives the Team Dunstan banner a viking funeral*
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Smile Don't Frown, Look Up Don't look Down
oh you heart stealer, don't shy away, tell me your name!

So this Vash/Kiv scenario makes me wonder... What about gay elves? If you happen to be born gay and are then bound to someone of the opposite gender, do you then become sexually attracted to that person?

I know, what an absurd question.

Wait- So Druze and his sister were an actual couple?? I almost had the impression that they were just somehow erm trying to keep their people alive by resorting to icky, unspeakable things? Esp since Druze was also involved with Midra (it doesn't say on the family tree whether or not they were married)...

Penelope, Druze and his sister were in love, which was obviously taboo for several reasons.

However, when you consider they were twins, essentially sharing the same blood supply while they were in the womb, they may have been bound together far more strongly than anything that could be done with "the formal ceremony wherein only a spark of fire and a drop of water were exchanged in a smear of blood". Perhaps he felt like his marriage to Midra (she was his proper wife) was nothing compared to that.

I am not sure Penelope... I would have to figure out the timeline of when the men in the valley were slaughtered and when Hel got locked up in the crypt below the old church. It may be that Hel killed her. Or maybe she did kill herself, since Druze was dead and they took her baby away from her to give to the men in the hills. I wonder whether anyone knows nowadays.

NImea would.

Good question. I've waved my hands a bit about what they wear, but I don't think we've ever talked about what they eat.

We do know they must eat meat, since they have bows & arrows (which we assume they did not invent solely to kill each other ) and because Lena "sang" rabbits into the pit with Aengus, and because Paul and Osh have been been known to provide the Nothelm kitchens with deer. Also Lar talked once about how his family had to eat his pet goose.

We know they don't eat dairy products of any kind, hence Kiv & Vash's alternating fascination and disgust with cheese and butter. And they don't have alcohol.

So aside from meat that probably leaves fruit and nuts and roots and leaves. Gorilla diet!

However, I think they do have a "cuisine" so they must have recipes and things. Somewhere a while back I mentioned that the ladies who were stuck on "Shalla duty" in the evenings were at least recompensed with sweets or delicacies of some sort.

I am not going to commit to much more at this point, because there is a good possibility that elven food will be mentioned at least in passing in a soon-upcoming chapter, which you may all go off and dream about now.

(For what it's worth, I was thinking of mentioning in the chapter where Kraaia comes to Cat's that the "two gravies" were elven recipes, but I decided against it and/or forgot about it. I kind of wish I had mentioned it now, to give Kraaia a chance to say "Especially not elven gravy!" )

Devin misses no detail where Sela is concerned!

Why yes they are! Or at least the khírrón are -- or think they are, when compared to the filthy, stinky, grubby dogs that are the kisór. You know how that goes.

Elves in general do not stink, though. From "Paul hears a sparrow fall":

“I hope you will take a bath of the getting-wet variety before you come in to supper,” Flann said.  “As sweaty as you are.”

Cat looked up at her in alarm.  Had her sister been looking at Paul’s admittedly sweaty body?

“I don’t stink!” he whined.

“No, you don’t, and I find it uncanny.  I like a man that smells like a man.”

“Stinky!”

“What of it?  But if he looks like an elf, so much the better.”

They aren't particularly hairy, and they do bathe a lot, and anyway their lack of a strong odor is similar to what keeps their babies from crying except in great distress, and what keeps their women from moaning during times of "great non-distress", for that matter. Since their noses and their ears are better than humans', it takes a lot less stinking and crying and moaning to get their point across. And anything more than that only reveals their presence to enemies, predators, or prey.

Ignore that last comment, please.

"Great non-distress."

I love that!

Ethelmund is prospering, and sound in mind and body. I was toying with the idea of having Bertie come and invite everyone to come to his place for Xmas, and of course Ethelmund couldn't go because Xmas is a busy time of year for him, but yup yup all the rest of you go, have fun, don't worry 'bout me, etc. And then... vague ideas of angst. Or heart attacks. Or maybe Gunnilda realizing that she can. not. live. without him.

But instead there is just so much going on, I scrapped that. Maybe next year.

Either way I think Ethelmund's continuing good health and even his life depend in large part on my whims as regards the relationship between Gunnilda and Egelric. Will there be another near miss as Egelric takes on wife #4 just a little too soon? Or will Gunnilda break her own marriage vows? Or or or?

We will probably see some Gunnilda later this month though. Just not in her own household.

I don't think Egelric should take a wife # 4 unless its really necessary.

Rock Bottom like he is right now.

Gwynn with the oh-so HANDSOME Egelric! *swoon*

The same day Osh's mother died, too, hmm........

All the elves know they're mostly cousins with all the other elves. The khírrón certainly are with each other -- they're downright inbred.

The most interesting revelation will be that Lar is himself khírrón. Even if Vash has twigged that there is some relationship there with Dru, he can always comfort himself with the thought that his mother was surely some random forest slut. In fact Lar has purer blood (and more magic, if only he knew how to use it) than many a noble.

I don't have a meeting planned for Lar and Gils at the present time. But the "present time" for me stretches at most out into next summer of Lothere time. Hopefully Lar and Gils both have plenty of years ahead of them.

I love the idea of Lar failing to notice the resemblance due to his Mirror Sigefrith status. "They do all have eyes, don't they?" I think Lar has managed to avoid long-term contact with children well enough that he isn't too quick to notice resemblances. So far I've done no more than have Lar make similar observations about their eyes and facial expressions, without making the leap of actually *noticing* that they're similar. But I would not be surprised if he figures it out instantly the first time he ever sees them together. Or if he's ever separated from one or the other for a long time, then sees them again. Then -- DRAMA!

OH! Another question!

As we've seen with Paul, the khirron severely punish any one of them who spills the blood of another khirron, even without killing them.

Suppose one of the khirron--let's go with Ris, since I don't think anyone is particularly fond of him (and my apologies to anyone who is)--injures Lar in some way that causes him to lose blood (but he lives, just because I couldn't stand even his hypothetical death), and all the other khirron know about it. A little while later, the fact that Lar is khirron comes out in the open. Would Ris be punished a la Kiv? Or would Lar be considered a blood traitor, meaning Ris would have a clean slate?

Also, is there any upcoming confrontation between Lar and Dru? There are so many mysteries surrounding that relationship...

...I'm totally jacking Penelope's thread. Sorry Pen.

So far I've done no more than have Lar make similar observations about their eyes and facial expressions, without making the leap of actually *noticing* that they're similar. But I would not be surprised if he figures it out instantly the first time he ever sees them together.

Um, wait! Aelfden was Hilda's mysterious rapist? When did that come out?!

Oh Meryt, you don't know how patiently I'm waiting for the day when Seven's paternity will be revealed to Aelfden and all the other Lotherians!! My parents will probably have to rush me to the emergency room for overdosing on DRAMA!!!!

As I said, he didn't...

Maybe just to be extra-creepy?

I thought the original Seven was an especially creepy-looking baby. With a small amount of plastic surgery he became Tryggve Thunder-throat, whom I still find somewhat creepy. He originally looked too much like Hilda.

Lena was baptized and became a Christian at Easter time, as Paul was originally supposed to be as well.

Lasrua hasn't yet and pointedly refuses to consider it. She might be convinced by the right man... but that will be a hard one for her pride to swallow.

"Dalas", or "lasúlím". To say "I am an elf" you would say "Pú dalas". To talk about "the elves" though you would use lasúlím which means more like "the elven race". Men are called ísúlím. (ís = sun, las = moon), but a man is called "man" and a woman is called "mana".

The men (at least all the men that elves have ever known) have a solar calendar and the elves have a lunar calendar.

On a deeper level, elven women's cycles are correspond with phases of the solar year (the solstices and equinoxes) while human women's correspond with the moon (though they're not synchronized as elven women are). And you know how icky and yucky and untrustworthy and hysterical females are, and how we don't want to be like them, right? Hence the men think the moon is spooky and makes you crazy, and the elves think the sun is.